Heather Riggs::  Okay. Yeah, go ahead.
Barry Krost::  Barry Krost, class of 1981, and I live in Evanston, Illinois, right now.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Okay, great. Is there anything in particular that you came in wanting to talk about?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, I think that as I’ve gotten older the value of my Grinnell experience has only grown even more. I think the first years I got outta here I didn’t- I don’t think I really understood exactly what had happened to me here in terms of what it had really done to transform me. But as the years have gone by, I actually use, and am aware of that experience a lot more. It’s actually planted kind of a seed in me, and it’s just sort of grown into this whole thing and I always go back to the Grinnell experience, to the start of it. But, I do natural healing and I use the skills that I learned here at Grinnell everyday in terms of being able to encounter things that I don’t understand and find some way to organize in a way that I can actually help the person meet that problem and figure out what’s going on there.
Barry Krost::  So, I have a lot of versatility to be able to improvise solutions that are good, problem-solving solutions using all the aspects of my being. And as I’ve enhanced those aspects, it only amplifies really, what Grinnell was for me, and even just- Y'know, this week, I’m just so aware, especially during a really particularly good session, I always think of Grinnell at the end of- somewhere during that session I think about, "Wow, you know I really have done something with it and thank God I was able to have that." ‘Cause I, more and more, see situations where I don’t have a- there’s no textbook, there’s no solution that I can just apply. I’ve gotta figure it out, and as I get more and more clients with more complicated issues, or my capacity to deal with a complicated issue grows, it’s just.. it's amazing what I can come up with and it wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t come here.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  What made you decide to come to Grinnell?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, I lived in Evanston, Illinois, then, as I do now, and they had a really good promoter. A recruiter. She gave a really good talk about Grinnell and it just sort of really fit my.. what I wanted to do. I mean, I really knew I wanted to do Anthropology, Sociology. I was really- this was 1976 when I had her, when she came out - and I really wanted to do service to the world. But I also wanted to understand what was going on in the world. I come from Holocaust people, so I had a lot of questions about human nature and why things happen the way they do and what world history, what was it doing – what really is happening out there? And.. what are really the solutions to the problems of the world? So I was very interested in the idea of communes. They were already winding down in the real world but I was very curious about them, having read a lot about it.
Barry Krost::  So, I came to Grinnell with sort of an agenda to learn more about human nature and I was pretty much sure I was gonna be Anthropology, and that’s one of the reasons I chose Grinnell. Knox had a Sociology-Anthropology department, and I didn’t want to even consider having a combined department. I really wanted to have an Anthropology department.
Barry Krost::  So... so I came and visited with a friend, and.. sat in a couple classes with Harold Kazimov who’s still here, and... I can’t remember who else it was, but sat in some classes and just was really impressed with the academic level. But also the fun of it: the person showing me around, he handed me and my friend a joint and said, “Have fun.” So it’s like, "Whoa, this is gonna be really out there. This is gonna be really cool, wow." So I wasn’t really a party person and I didn’t really come here to party but it really was sort of like, "Wow, anything is really possible here." There’s no box that you’re gonna have to sit in the whole four years. I was interested in blowing up my box and figuring out what a bigger box would be, or bigger boxes would be.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Great. I’m just curious, did you have Jon Andelson?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Jon Andelson was my advisor.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Really? I took Theories of Culture with him last year. I think he's somewhere...
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I love Jon Andelson. I don’t know if he’s around this weekend, but...
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Oh, I-
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I love Jon Andelson and he was my advisor and probably the professor that influenced my life here the most.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Yeah. Well, I was actually, my next question is, is there a professor that had a profiund influence on you?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Yeah, Andelson easily. My best class I’ve ever taken in my whole life was Anthropology of Religion.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I’m taking that next semester!
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  It was my favorite, favorite class. The topics were fascinating. It got me into that sense of human nature that I had come here for, and it was also a very rigorous class. It was a class that really challenged me to step up into another level. That was my junior year. I think first semester junior year and I was struggling my first two years here. It was really hard to keep up with the pace, and the academic requirements and really getting myself up to another level, and that was the semester I turned the corner and started becoming more academically competent and started to really trust myself that I could actually be a good problem solver. I actually wrote a paper for Andelson, and his comment to me was “I have no criticisms of this paper.”
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Wow.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  It’s about as close to a perfect as I’ve ever had. It was a good- it was a fun paper to write, and I have lost the paper, unfortunately. But Andelson was great, and- Oh, yeah! Of course, you know, Professor Luebben. I loved Luebben, and... spent some fine times in the Pub with him. He didn’t come down vary often but I had some really interesting conversations at the Pub with him. And Professor Kurtz. He was great. Those were the three I took most of my courses with. I love the Anthropology department here.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  It was- I loved it and I’d actually thought I would continue on, but then, all the funding for post-graduate BA type people disappeared in the eighties. Reagan came in and he wiped all that out, so Andelson actually told me, “It’s gonna be hard if you wanna do this. You’re gonna have to really be, sort of very focused on your goal,” and I wasn’t. So, if I had continued, I would’ve been Medical Anthropology, but instead I went and became kind of an urban shaman.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  I’m a natural healer, and instead of studying the healing world of... I actually became one. So I actually am in that place that I would’ve studied and I actually use the anthropological model every day, the participant-observer. I am a participant in my clients’ neurological and energetic experience but I’m also an observer watching how we’re responding to each other and how they're responding to themself and making some choices about what else I can show them. So I use anthropology every day of my life.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Oh, that’s great.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  I’m glad to hear it helping what you're-
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Me too.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  What are your best or strongest memories of your time at Grinnell?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  The conversations I had with people, particularly when we were really high. Back then, the marijuana wasn’t so strong so you could actually take three or four tokes, and you'd still have your brain cells working, so... I lived in Loose Hall my freshman year and we had just amazing conversations, especially on the second floor there, one room. There’d be like 12 guys and there’d be some BSing around, but there was some- it was almost like a classroom setting sometimes. Smoke a little marijuana and just have these fabulous conversations. And I learned how to follow a conversation during that time, so that at the end of the evening, I could actually tell you what everybody said. It really made my listening skills for- in discussion purposes much better. And that’s something else I use every day. I’m really good at listening to what people are saying and remembering what they said, and doing something with it.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  So, we had some fab- and our arguments. I once argued about Marxism with a st- with Goutam Ghosh. We spent about six hours arguing about this thing. And none of us won but it was a fun- It was fun to meet people that you could really dance with in a conversation.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  What were some of your favorite more academic experiences in the classroom?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, I just had so many good classes here. I actually have a regular dream where I come back and take classes ‘cause I still want more classes from here. The academic experience is great. I had some wonderful classes that were so interesting. Al Jones, I had a couple classes with him that were great. Religious Studies classes with Harold Kazimov. Courses that really- Dostoyevsky with Mr. Mohan; that was a fabulous class. We read five Dostoyevsky novels and oh, man, that was- Dostoyevsky was a real eye-opener.
Barry Krost::  So I think just all the classes I had- I don’t think I had a class here I didn’t like. I know some people here were looking for easy classes and there were some I regret I didn’t take but, there wasn’t a class that I thought, “That’s a waste of my time.” I still regret not taking Genetics. One semester I thought about it. I went, “Aw, I’ve got too many other hard classes. I don’t think I can do it.” But no, the academics always were.. they really were wonderful. I never missed class. I showed up.. I never got high for class. I just loved being in the classroom.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Crazy. Is there something that was meaningful to you on campus but that is no longer available?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, you guys are not using the Forum the way we did.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Yeah.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  That was the first thing: I got to campus and I went…
Heather Riggs::  And- I mean, how did you use it?
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  It was the- it was the center of the campus. There was no way you could walk past the Forum without seeing somebody you knew probably sitting outside there, when it was- weather was good. Or you go in the Forum, and there- everybody was there, and it was a small enough place where you could not, y'know- and you had to go past it especially if you lived on South Campus. You’re going back from ARH to one of the dorms, back and forth. So there’s always somebody at the Forum. If I was feeling kind of anxious and just needed to find somebody to talk to-
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Like, needed some social contact, you always find it walking past the Forum. So, I know you have this new building here, but it doesn’t seem like it- it’s so big. I don’t suspect you have the same kind of, seeing everybody as the center as much. I- First- That’s the first thing I looked for, is the Forum active and is anybody there? And nobody is. I was a little sad.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  How- in what other ways has Grinnell changed since you were student, either physically or just the social mentality?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, it’s certainly bigger. I mean all these buildings, wow. It’s pretty amazing. It’s almost unrecognizable at this point to me. I mean- Y'know, I had- I walked through the Loggia over on South dorm and it's like, "OK, now I’m in Grinnell." So it definitely looks different. Socially, I don’t know. I mean my guess is the campus, from what I read in the Magazine and everything, you guys are more serious than we were. We played- we- well, I don’t know how hard you play but we worked really hard and we played really hard and most- some of that play was some of the best stuff. I mean like, say we had these conversations but.. and I’m not an advocate of heavy drug use, but we played in a way where we really stepped out of our inhibitions a lot in a way that was usually safe. That was the nice thing about the campus. You didn’t get- you know, do anything you want. You’re not having to drive or do anything crazy.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  So some of the play was very powerful in terms of really- it was like a very anthropological experience. You know? You’re suddenly- everybody is really high or really drunk or whatever and you would have conversations that were so unusual and strange and wonderful, and it.. it really opened up my sense of what human- what human interaction can be about. So hopefully you’re still playing hard.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  That was definitely a good part of it.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  What was the campus- or social life like during your time?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Oh, I’d say we- People hung out at the Forum and we had, y’know the highlights were the big parties. We had Loose Hall Ball, James Gang Bang, were the two main ones and I actually was the coordinator of Loose Hall Ball in ’78, ’79. So we put on quite the party in Darby Gym, so those parties in Darby Gym were the highlights. And also the music, like Joan Armitrading came. We had a lot- the music program here was fabulous. I used to talk to the woman who was in charge of booking all the acts. I became one of the people she talked to, so I had, actually, some influence about music that showed up.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  But we had fabulous jazz and every weekend there was a really nice activity at the Forum. A really good jazz, a really good folk or, you know, really good concerts. The Police came.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Wow.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  They signed The Police to a contract to come here in ’77 or ’78, somewhere in there, and then The Police’s first album went crazy and they didn’t wanna come but they had a contract, so they were forced to come here, to this little college, and perform. They were very hot at the moment and it was amazing. We got to go to Darby Gym and see The Police.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Wow.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  That was good.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  How would you compare the students of today with your classmates?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I don’t- Y’know I get something from the Journal. I don't- haven’t spent a long time talking to students today. It seems like you’re... just- I don’t know if there’s that much difference. I think you’re more politically aware of what’s going on, and I think it’s easier now to sort of take a stand. I think the, as the societies become more black and white in terms of who’s against who, it’s gotten easier to pick a side, pick a stance. Or I think it was less clear in the 80s- or the 70s, 80s what the issues really were. There were still- it wasn’t quite as solidified.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  There was a lot more gray about... at least it felt more grayer to us, where even in my adult life now at 52, it's- things are much more black and white now, which is more challenging I think, because you almost have to have a stand and then somebody else has a stance that’s opposite and there’s not a lot of middle ground. Then, I felt like even- like we had a bunch of forums about the moral majority. It was not- we were still polite to the other side. It wasn’t like they came in here and we’re gonna yell at them and they’re gonna yell at us. They came in and we had a frank discussion about what they felt. We brought in one of the leading people in Iowa for them, and then we brought in Tom Harkin who was a senator from Iowa. His son went to Grinnell.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Oh really?
Barry Krost::  I don’t know if he's- So he came in and we had Harkin and we had the other, and we had a wonderful discussion and the College was very supportive. They didn’t give us a lot of money or anything but they were... Y’know, we talked to President Drake and the other folks what we wanted to do and they realized we were really doing something serious and nice and it was great.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Okay. What makes your class distinct from classes before you and classes after you?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I think we give the least amount of money. I don’t know. There was something different about us. I think we were a very transitional group. We weren’t quite the 70s group and we weren’t quite the 80s group, ‘cause I’m class of ’81. So I think we were a little bit of that- we were a little hippie but we were also kind of serious, too, about wanting to do well in professional life. We wanted to, you know- I think a big chunk of my classmates became lawyers, where maybe a few years earlier that would’ve been less true.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Yeah.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I really think we were very in-between two groups. We definitely had some affinity for the whole 60s and, we had a strong belief in social justice and wanting to do well in the world, but there was a seriousness also about wanting to be professionally successful and make money and do well.
Heather Riggs::  If you were writing a history of Grinnell College, what would you include from your- from your years here?
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  I think, I probably would discuss some of these discussions that we had. I would remember things we talked about. That’s what I remember the most, is conversations that I had with different people, or I remember a number of lectures that Andelson gave.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  They’re still in my head. Or, funny, funny things that happened in class, like Al Jones always leaning up against the chalkboard and by the end of class the back of his sweater would be covered with chalk. And he didn’t care at all and I always thought that one day I’d end up, in my fantasy world I’d end up at Grinnell College, teaching with my back up against the chalkboard covered in chalk.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  I love that about Al Jones. He was tough on me, but that’s one of the- It might be my most funny, favorite moment at Grinnell, is the first time I saw him doing that and realized what was going on. It was like, “Oh, Professor Jones you’re covered in chalk!” He could care less, and he just told the most fabulous stories.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  He told us a story about... during the Cuban Missile Con- Crisis, where they.. People were like starting to build bomb shelters underneath their homes. They really thought it’s gonna happen. He told it- Yeah, they were so- everybody was so frightened and he told a story and it was one of the few times he told a story that was so personal from his own experience here. He didn’t really usually get that far into his personal activities, but he told a story about his family and other families in Grinnell and their fear of the end.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Wow.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  That was funny but also really... he really was, as a historian, really captured that moment for him and his, and every- people living here in Grinnell and I’ll always remember that. I would actually, that would be an important part of any history, I think.
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  Well, I don’t have any more questions. Do you have anything else you’d like to add?
Heather Riggs & Barry Krost::  I loved Grinnell, and I think of it every day almost, and I feel fortunate. I got in by the skin of my teeth, it felt like. My grades weren’t great in high school. I was definitely kind of lost in a certain way and I applied for Early Decision and I wanted so badly to get in. They didn’t call me the day they were gonna call me to tell me if I got in or not, so I called the Director of Admissions in his home at dinner and said, “You know, you were gonna tell me whether I get in or not. Am I in?" I needed to know. I didn’t care how inappropriate it was. I wanted to know. “Oh, yes, you’re in.” That was the... I was just like, "Wow. It was so important for me to get in here, and I really felt, desperately, once I knew I wanted to come here.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  And my experience here was great. There was a lot of hard parts. I wish I could come back now. I have a regular dream where I come back at my current age and it’s more how I would do it now. I wish I had been more relaxed and more ease on myself back then. I think I would’ve gotten more - as much as I got from Grinnell I probably missed out on quite a bit. I regularly have a dream where I come back and I do that, so it’s nice being back. It’s changed and I’ve changed, but it’s so much a part of who I am. It's really nice being back.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Yeah. Well, thanks so much.
Barry Krost & Heather Riggs::  Thank you.
