Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: My name is Nancy Ganschaw Frakes. I currently live in Des Moines, Iowa, and I’m a member of the Grinnell College class of 1976— although I technically graduated in ’78 but I started with the class of ’76. Why did I first come to Grinnell? I was told in kindergarten after blowing out some IQ score that I was going to go to college. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And I always knew I was going to go to college. It was just a matter of where and when. It was never... It never occurred to me that I wouldn’t go to college. I remember having problems with sewing and cooking classes in junior high and then thinking, “That’s okay, I’ll hire somebody to do that.” I was- which would be hard for you probably to understand... in 1970, I was in a Chemistry class and there were 3 of us in AP Chemistry, 3 girls, because we were then, girls. And the teacher looked at us and he said,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: “I don’t know why I’m wasting my time teaching you girls. You’re all going to be mommies anyhow.” Such was the world in 1970 and I backed down. I just realized that I didn’t want to fight that hard. I was considering being a hematologist, an oncologist and working in the medical profession. But I was so cowed and scared and just didn’t have the fight in me. I’m not a fighter. Then I said, ok, I’ll study English literature, poetry, Classics—
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: that’s safe. And my mother wanted me to go to college because then I would meet a rich fellow who would marry me and he could be the doctor. It didn’t turn out that way at all, but when I first- it was my junior year of high school in the Chicago suburbs and my parents said, “Okay, time to go on and look at colleges.” And I already had this set limit in my mind that I was going at least 300 miles away so they couldn’t drop in on me. I wanted to go to the University of Chicago but it was just too close.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And I’d had 4 years of Latin already in high school and that’s a good school, U of Chicago, for Classics. But I had to get out of Illinois. Iowa was close. We had a friend from our church, Don Weeda, who I think is class of ’74 who was from my hometown, Elmhurst, Illinois.
Zoe Zebe:: I have a good friend from there actually.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: He met us and we ate at Quad and I talked with the admissions office, and all we talked about was what I was reading, which was Shelley, Keats, Byron--English romantic poetry. And then I had had four years, I was in my third year planning on a fourth year in Latin. And the admission officer said, “Well, hey, I’ll send you up to talk to Bill McKibben in Classics.” I said, okay, whatever.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I walked over to ARH, up to the third floor and Dr. McKibben had- was the quintessential professor. He had books, ancient books, on the wall, little quotes in Greek, on the wall with exclamation points after them and a beard and a pipe. And I remember thinking this is where I wanna be and it never occurred to me... We visited Carleton, Cornell, Macalester, Oberlin,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  a bunch of the other ACM schools but I was already convinced I was going to go to Grinnell. By the time I walked out of Bill McKibben’s office, I knew I was going to take his freshman tutorial in Myth and Religion in Ancient Greece. That pushed all my buttons. I had grown up learning to read, reading a book of Greek mythology and knew the Greek myths by heart. I was totally into mythology and Joseph Campbell and his writings. And I came here in 1972 thinking
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  I was going to be a Classics major. I took Bill McKibben’s freshman tutorial in Myth and Religion in Ancient Greece--loved it. And stayed with religion until sophomore year. I ended up just by chance taking a Religious Studies course, more for, kind of, shits and giggles. And became totally fascinated by Religious Studies. People don’t kill each other over Classics but they do over religion. I had to write a paper on abortion.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: That was one of our last papers and I remember really thinking about that and how stimulating that was and where did I fall on this issue. I remember the paper I titled in Latin, “It does not think, therefore it is not.” Basically, that continued to be my life position that you need at least six months embryonic development before you really have a human being. Yes, you have DNA but it is a potential
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: and a woman has a right to determine what she is going to do with that potential life within her. I remember we ate at Quad. I thought Quad was really neat. Don was here already from my high school class. I knew him, I dated his brother and by the time we left Grinnell, I knew this was where I wanted to apply. I applied here and Rosary College, which was an all-girls school in the Chicago suburbs-- I didn’t really want to go there though.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: It was an all-girls school, I would have had a straight ticket to become a MLS in Library Science. That was too close to home and I really wanted to get away from my parents. So, I came out here and never regretted it. I was in Bill McKibben’s tutorial, continued with Latin, tried Greek, didn’t do very well with Greek but I got very strong with my Latin with the four years in high school and I basically had four years of Latin here at Grinnell with the McKibbens. Senior year, I remember I read Augustine’s Confessions
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: in Latin, and discussed it over cookies with Betty McKibben. Was there a professor, or student, or staff member, who had a particular strong influence? John Mohan in the Russian department. I didn’t take Russian Studies, Russian classes until my sophomore--my junior year and he had the most... He was the most wonderful teacher. He had such a heart and a feeling and a love for Russian literature. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I took Tolstoy in the fall because as he said, "Tolstoy’s vision darkens with age, and so we study him in the fall, while Dostoyevsky’s vision lightens with the spring, so we had Dostoyevsky in the spring." John really liked Tolstoy, and I think I got more out of Tolstoy. We read everything, though. I mean we read War and Peace, we read The Kreutzer Sonata, we read, oh God, everything that Tolstoy wrote 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: and then we read everything that Dostoyevsky wrote in those two semesters. By this time I had switched majors. My sophomore year, Howard Burkle was my advisor and I’ve just actually seen him this afternoon. He’s in the Mayflower; he’s had a very bad stroke in his right brain. But I worked kind of as a departmental secretary for the Religious Studies department. ’Cause I was looking for work and I remember going over to Biology once and I can’t remember who it was I talked to
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  and he looked at me and said; “Religious Studies major?” He said, “You know, I’ve done a lot of autopsies and I’ve never found a soul.” I said, “Well, you shouldn’t. It’s incorporeal.” He said, “Ahh, that’s bullshit.” So I ended up working as a secretary in the Religious Studies department in ’73, ’74, ’75. And it was nice, I helped Howard type one of his books up, did errands for Harold Kazimow, Dr. Haas. It was a wonderful major. It was the best way 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: for me to get a grasp on Western civilization because everything ultimately comes down to why do people kill each other: politics or religion? And it was the... I've learned so much about Western civilization because my background of course, I’d had the Roman history and then the Medieval Renaissance. I didn’t take it past the Renaissance too much because Protestantism kind of left me cold. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: But Harold Kasimow is a saint. I think he’s a bodhisattva here brought to us to help us along an ecumenical path. He was just wonderful. I studied Islam with him. He strongly encouraged me to go to Temple, which was his alma mater, in order to pursue Islamic Studies. I didn’t do that. It didn’t work out like that way financially for me. But John, Howard, Harold were 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: my three main professors. When I opened the Grinnell magazine and saw that John had died, I remember sitting on my front porch and just sobbing. ’Cause I had met him, I had come in to see Uncle Vanya with a friend about six weeks prior to his massive heart attack and I told him at that meeting how much he had meant to me and how much I remembered what he had said. I am so glad I had that opportunity. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: It’s never too early to thank somebody for how they’ve impacted your life. I also had two buddies who are still my buddies: Robert Stern in the Classics department who was a student in my class, and then Marvin Barnes. And Marvin was a History major and then now his wife, Ellen-- that’s my core, my homies, whatever. Those are my... you know, I don’t know a lot of people here, actually, at Reunion. I had to study hard.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I found myself a small fish in a very big pond here. I had been academically excellent in high school and I came here and I worked really hard to get B’s and A’s. I wrote, I wrote, I came with a type writer and I would have killed for a word processor. No internet, no, nothing like that. Writing papers over and over and trying to get them right.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Let’s see... What’s your best memory? My best year here was my junior year, which is very typical as a student. I lived off campus, I lived in Langan for the first half of the semester, the first semester. And then I moved to what was called “Quiet House” on Park Street, which was a group of Religion and Philosophy majors. They were vegetarians and I was totally freaked out that I was going to die of protein malnutrition having been fed the typical Midwestern meat-potato-vegetable diet. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I somehow survived. We ate brewer’s yeast, nut butters, eggplant parmesan. I hate... I’ll never eat egg plant parmesan again if I can help it. We bought food from Blooming Parade Co-op in Iowa City and they delivered it. I was the granola maker for the house. I had to hide cans, coffee cans of granola in my closet because I could only distribute it every two or three days or it would be all gone 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: because I had a really dynamite granola recipe. That was my best year academically, that was when I took the Russian classes, I was comfortable in my major; I was thinking about graduate school. I really felt like I belonged here and this was the first place in the world that I'd ever felt I belonged. It was like this whole bunch of oddballs and I belonged here and I hadn’t felt that anytime growing up until I came to Grinnell. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: What clothes did I wear? I had never owned a pair of jeans until I went to college. So I wore jeans. I had this little PJ top that I wore to class that had little ducks on it. Never a skirt; never a bra. I had to buy a bra when I graduated. A lot of women would run around with overalls without even bras on. I wasn’t that risqué.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: But it was pretty much anything goes. For the social code, our bathrooms were co-ed. People were having sex in the showers when I lived at Loose Hall. It was a totally eye opening experience. Also, the campus was not diverse like now. There were a lot more Jewish people and a lot more people from the Coast. Grinnell didn’t start recruiting Iowans until, I think, the mid ’70s, late ’70s. I mean, we had about two or three people. It’s like,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: “Wow, you’re from Iowa, wooh!” That was very unusual. What books influenced you? The Hedgehog and the Fox by Isaiah Berlin, which I read with John Mohan and realized I was a fox, not a hedgehog. I did a comparison paper on Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky. It's from Aesop’s Fable, the hedgehog knows many things-- excuse me,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I totally screwed that up, the fox knows many things; the hedgehog knows one big thing, and that writers are hedgehogs or foxes. Moliere is a fox. Shakespeare is a fox. Dante is a hedgehog. Dostoyevsky is a hedgehog. It was a wonderful book. The Icon and the Axe, also about Russian history. Reading St. Augustine’s Confessions in Latin my senior year with
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Betty McKibben at their house, eating chocolate chip cookies. That was a very important book and I have been deeply, unfortunately, warped by St. Augustine’s world view. His dark belief that we’re all sinners. And that just seems so right to me. I felt so much of an understanding. It’s like I got original sin right away.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Nobody had to explain it to me ’cause I felt it. Augustine, I did a study my senior first semester, translating confessions and reading— reading, discussing Augustine and then translating the confessions with Betty McKibben. And Augustine has still totally changed my life. I still look at things— okay, well yeah, eventually we’re going to screw this up.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: The town was very separate. We went to the Longhorn, the Classics majors, which isn’t even here anymore, next to McNally’s. I didn’t venture off campus much because everything I needed was here. We could drink at 20, or 18 when I was here, so there was a pub on campus. The town struck me as, coming from Chicagoland, a bunch of kind of 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: wannabe cowboys, who weren’t. They were farmers. But I didn’t hang out in town too much. It seems like there’s a little more of a town-gown connection than there was before and that’s great. I babysat for the Lannom family who owned Delong's, and Linda Lannom committed suicide my sophomore year and that was very, very hard for me. I’d never been
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: so closely involved with somebody who committed suicide. And taking care of her kids. It was difficult, really difficult. One of the, I can’t remember who it was, one of the faculty members’ wives called me and she said, “Did you know that Linda had overdosed?” I said, “No. How are the kids?” “They’re okay.” That was... I kind of kept away from the town after that. It was too hard. She was on the 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: MAOI antidepressants and you can’t of course, drink or eat cheese. It’s a very restrictive diet, last resort diet and she ended up dying as a result of it. How has Grinnell changed? Well, there’s a lot more buildings. The Science center is huge; there’s all these northeast campus buildings. I love the oak tree out there for John Mohan. The Forum doesn’t seem like it’s used.
Zoe Zebe:: It's used a little, mostly as a computer lab.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: That was our center. That was one of my most meaningful buildings. I would hang out, I would study. I hated studying in the library. Being an only child and kind of an introvert, I didn’t like the library. The library was very sociable and I need concentration and silence. I would go to the Forum and study there a lot, or in my room. Favorite academic experience? For majoring in Religion and minoring in Classics, I still think it was the Russian classes. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: John brought so much to Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, and then I took a senior year first semester Russian history class which really got my attention. I can’t remember what the professor’s name was. He’s not here anymore, but it was good. We had to be experts in our field, in our majors so I had to know everything about Russian religion because there weren’t any other Religious Studies majors in the class. Somebody would have a question on Cyril and Methodius
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: and I would have to look up that and have it for the next class. I loved the one-on-one classes with Bill McKibben. He was an awesome teacher-- so many of the teachers here were. I studied at the University of Iowa after I left here and it was just a joke. They were like, oh we have to read three books this semester; hell, I had to read three books every week! I mean, the academics were so much less rigorous. My favorite place on campus was South Lounge in the Forum.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I could hideaway in there forever. If I knew what I know now, what would I have done differently? I would have studied more science classes. I have a very strong interest in environmental studies, especially Botany. I think I didn’t take them because I was scared that I was going to get overwhelmed by the really smart people who knew science and math and so I figured it was safer to stay with the humanities. I’ve many times said that I could easily go through here four times, four years again
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: and take totally different classes. When I graduated from Grinnell, we didn’t know how the DNA molecule unzipped to replicate. When I started studying botany up at Iowa State, it was like, oh good, they figured that out. Or, gee, there’s more elements on the Periodic Table than I remember, twenty years later. I did meet my spouse here. How do you compare the students of today with your classmates? 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: It’s hard to say. I haven’t met a lot of the students. I think my group of baby boomers was less interested in getting a job after college than the current people are. I don't know. When do you graduate, '12? Yeah, like you! I went to college never thinking I was going to get a job or work or anything. It was personal enrichment. Maybe I’d end up teaching,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: ending up getting a doctorate. But it wasn’t a means to an end. I remember in the admissions office on my first day here on the campus, the fellow said, “What do you want to do when you grow up?” And I said I had absolutely no idea. He said, “You are our kind of woman.” And I thought that was okay. He said, “If you want to be a dentist, go to the University of Iowa and study dentistry. If you don’t know what you want to do, come to Grinnell.” I thought I had vague notions of being a Latin teacher. I had no idea.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  I just know I was going to do something professional. I figured I was going to go on to my master’s and doctorate and didn’t do that because of financial. My parents got pissed off at me and cut my money off so I had to get a job like a real person. But I do think the students of today are much more aware of the job market. I mean I was a senior and it never even occurred to me, like, gee I should apply to grad school! It just was never a part of my experience. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And nobody- I mean, I’m not blaming anybody, but nobody ever talked to me about that either and said, “Hey, what are your plans after graduation?” You know, I’m going to go to Vanderbilt and study Religious Studies and then write books. But Karen Armstrong has pretty much covered that, so she’s written the books I was going to write. So I don’t feel so bad— at least the world didn’t miss that. I have since gone back and become a nurse, which I think Religious Studies was a good preparation for - Psychiatric nurse. And then I now work in neuroscience.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And I do not feel that a liberal arts education is wasted— ever. Because I do feel you learn how to learn. And I could slip into any area if I needed to. And because I know how to learn. If the economy would go bad, well, at 56, that’s not an issue for me because my husband’s retiring next year. You know, I’ve been a nurse for 20 years and I’m going to have a hard time retiring
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: as a nurse because the shortage of nurses is getting bad. Already we’re starting to feel it. But I mean, I think the job situation is the biggest difference with my generation of baby boomers and the current generation. Because you’re really thinking about jobs, it seems. And I was like, oh well, I’ll bus tables in Iowa City. You know, I cleaned floors in Iowa City. It didn’t make much difference. 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Describe student and campus life as you experienced it during your time at Grinnell. It’s hard to know what campus life was like. We were co-ed dorms. I mean, it was wide open. Which was... My parents insisted I be in Clark, which was the only female dorm on campus in 1972. And we still had guys staying overnight. I moved to Loose sophomore year, which we would call co-ed by pillow. My roommate’s boyfriend moved in. I was like, “Okay! Shut up! I can hear you! I’m still awake!” 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And I ended up moving in with his roommate just to get some sleep. I don’t know how that’s changed. If people are... I mean, this was before AIDS. Our biggest concerns were syphilis, gonorrhea, and we didn’t have that life-threatening disease as an issue. I mean, things were pretty open. We had a bridal fair, I remember, in Loose Lounge, and somebody- I can’t remember who it was, was walking around selling condoms. And the woman finally fled just
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: because the audience was so hostile. And then two streakers ran through. But then somebody locked the doors, so they had to run back. It was wild. I mean, we had Bruce Springsteen here. It was... I’m sure it’s different. But again, not having lived on campus, I don’t know what your experiences- Does this resonate with you in any way?
 
Zoe Zebe:: To an extent. Sure. It's still pretty open, I would say. Maybe- maybe not quite to that extent. There’s been a big movement to do gender-neutral housing, so I know a couple of people who are rooming with people of the opposite sex, both platonically and in relationships. I don’t know, interesting though.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I was very aware that some of my friends were gay and having very difficult time coming out. One of my friends who is not here at the Reunion, and I would love to see him. I experienced with him the difficulty of- and I’m being, of course... it was totally different for me. I am like as heterosexual as you can get. I am just wired this way and he's wired that way. It’s a purely biological inclination. You love who you love.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I watched him suffer so hard. He took me down to Kansas City to meet his folks. His mother put us in the same bedroom thinking, oh good, a girlfriend. And I’m like, “No, no, I’d like my own room actually.” And she, “Oh no, that’s okay! We’re cool! We’re liberal! You two can sleep together.” Like, “We don’t want to sleep together...” Very hard on him. Very hard for, I mean, this was how long after Stonewall?
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: It was so difficult to come out and I mean, one of my friends, in fact, told his father and, you know, said he was gay, and his father was... He was amazed at how... He said, “Yeah, my dad, the big liberal, all of a sudden freaks out ’cause I’m gay.” And, you know, it was… I don’t think- I don’t know. Maybe that’s not as much of an issue because of the media, maybe parents, because basically I’m old enough to be your mom. Maybe parents are a little better about that now. But it was a difficult issue.
Zoe Zebe:: Do you think that the campus was a more supportive community than Grinnell at large?
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. I think we were really…I mean, I felt, at least it was. Now, I’m not a gay person, and I really can’t really speak for gay people, ’cause as I’ve said, I’m hopelessly heterosexual. God, I tried! But you know, I don’t know, and really, a gay person could answer that a lot better. It’s still difficult in Iowa. And it’s going to take a long time to change. I mean I think we’ve made really good inroads,
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  but I just feel you’re wired one way or another. My friend who’s gay is like, “I’ve always liked guys! I can’t help it! You know, I was born that way!” And I do think it’s a hormonal whatever, you know. You just... women don’t smell right to me, what can I say. Guys are a pain in the ass too! But I mean, I’m just attracted to guys. So again, I don’t know, I don’t know what the current... I mean, we had some radical fairy groups on campus.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I, in fact, hitchhiked down to Kansas City with a friend of mine and went to a GLF, Gay Liberation Front meeting in the early ’70s. I thought it was great. It was fine with me. But again, it’s not my call; it’s not my judgment. If you say that’s how you identify yourself, that’s how you identify yourself. Student life as you experienced it? I’m not a good person to ask about this because I was studying all the time, basically. I studied from- what was it? I pretty much studied all week, 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: and then I took from 6:30 Saturday off ’til noon on Sunday. I was one of the bright bulbs in my high school, but there were people so much smarter than me here. And I really had to work to graduate in the top quarter of my class. Some people were just, oh, yeah whip off a 20-page paper. I don’t write that way. And I agonized over every sentence, and I would have killed for a word processor. I think I said that earlier. I would have killed for a word processor.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: Everything was hand-written. Everything was typed. Oh my God, that would have been so wonderful. To have internet access! We had to look everything up in books! God! Students of today... I do think students of today are more open minded at this university— at this college. But I think in general most university and college students are more open-minded, because of the things we did. I mean, I do think us baby boomers have to take some credit for that. Not all of us are liberals, 
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: God knows, who’s attending these freaking Tea Parties! But you know, student and campus life, anything goes! I mean, that’s what I felt like. I mean we’d have guys running down the halls saying, “Anybody got a rubber?” I mean, it was pretty open. People having sex in the showers, and especially when I lived in Loose. It was a big education for me. I mean I graduated as a virginal honors student in ’72, and within 12 months, whoo...
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: my world view had totally changed. If I was writing the history of Grinnell College, what would I include? Oh God... I feel I was very well-educated. Entry-level, and I always look at education as entry-level. I was well-prepared to go to graduate school, which I did not. I loved it. God, I’ve never lived more than 50 miles from Grinnell!
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I can’t seem to get away! When I graduated, I moved to Iowa City, audited some classes in Latin American history, learned some Spanish, applied for a Watson, didn’t get it, and then ended up moving in to Des Moines. I mean, I’ve always- When I came here in ’72, I never thought I’d be here in 2010. Never in my wildest dreams. I would have been in Paris, London, Bogota, anywhere but Iowa.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: And, you know, being a Grinnellian has totally colored my life. I argue with people all the time about the war, about politics. And they’ll say, “Oh, you went to Grinnell.” Excuse me for being a liberal! What would I include from my years? I think my years here were pretty, quite crazy. We probably had more drug usage here than you do now. I don't know.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: I mean, it was like, don’t do the brown acid! More people were tripping, people were smoking pot, the pub was open. It was, I mean, this has totally colored who I am, for better or worse. I say to my husband sometimes, “You knew I was a Grinnellian when you married me!” I ended up going back to school and becoming a nurse, because you can’t do much with Religious Studies short of going on to graduate school or founding
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes:: a small cult and having them worship you. And that wasn’t really a realistic option. I love it here. I’ve bought McKibben’s, I'm planning on returning them to the College when I die. This is still such a beautiful, peaceful campus in a lovely small town. It’s a little haven in the midst of the cornfields. And on that note, I’ll stop.
Nancy Ganschaw Frakes::  It’s been a... What a long, strange trip it’s been. I never had any idea what I was getting into when I came here. I’m so glad I did. 
