Margaret Bogie::  My name is Margaret Ann Bogie. I live in Chantilly, Virginia, and I'm class of 1976.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Alright, why did you come to Grinnell?
Margaret Bogie::  I came to Grinnell for a- really a- accidentally. It was not a purpose of choice. I was in England between my junior and senior years of high school. I wanted to be a Medieval historian and English history was my passion. And my parents were smart enough to at least give me a contact. They didn’t just let me loose me on England, which was probably wise. And this lady, Peggy Wanamaker, was a 1960 Grinnell graduate and she was really cool.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And, so.. One of the things she said to me was: "You oughta look at Grinnell." I had never heard of Grinnell. I had no idea, but she was pretty cool. I thought, "Okay, I'll look at this." One of the things I wanted when I was 17 years old was I wanted to get far away from my parents as possible. High school was kind of boring.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Where were you from?
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I actually lived in northern Virgina. At that time it was more rural. It was Herndon, which was a stupid place. Very vacuous people, I found, in my high school. I was in a high school of 3000. I wanted a smaller school and this is a pretty much an artifact of the 1970s. At that time, many colleges, women couldn't go to them. I mean, they were male schools and female schools.
Margaret Bogie::  My older sister for example, she went to the All Women’s Teacher's College. But, by the early 70s, that was changing, and one of the big attractions to me for Grinnell was it was co-ed. In there, you know, we were all mixed up together and there were even co-ed dorms, which was 'Wow'. This was exciting. And there were no requirements. At that point it was really pretty wide open. You had to take a freshman tutorial, and you could... You had to have some diversity in your classes, but not much 'cause this child did not want to take any math. I really was not interested in science. I wanted to study medieval history. I was bound and determined, and as my advisor will tell you:
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I was probably one of the narrowest History majors they'd ever produced. I just didn’t- I didn't wanna go past 1600 and I didn’t for a lot-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  So they had enough classes, or did you have-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I was able to finagle things. I did the- I spent my junior year- I went to a British university my junior year. Not Grinnell-in-London, but a real British university, where they- Their educational spec was really neat.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. So you did much-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And that's all I did, too. I did a whole year of, just, exactly what- Like, Hundred Years War, and the crusades, and all this great stuff, which... And, because it was just given to me as just blank credit, it didn't count. Yeah, I was pretty devious in what I was doing.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  It's interesting 'cause my mom is from Alexandria, Virginia. She's the class of '81, and is still like- Yeah, going to Iowa was really kind of going far.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  It was like being in a marriage. Well, my father and others said, y'know, people were like, "Crows piss on Iowa," or something. You know it’s like, you know, 'Why would you wanna go there? Why don’t you want to go to some other, like, Ivy League school?' And, 'Well, I don't-' you know? So, I just applied. I was Early Admission, and I came. I mean, I never saw the place before. I just came.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Wow.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  You know, just kinda out of the blue. Just kind of like, 'Okay, here I am.'
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  What was your- Do you remember your first memory of campus?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Oh, yeah. So Ozark Airlines was around, and- Ozark is- they're the other- long out of business, but they had these little puddle hopper planes, so you kind of took off from Washington and you landed all over the Midwest. Like, in a- Like, four stops before you got to Des Moine.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Oh, my gosh.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  You went to Bloomington, Illinois- You know, just kinda kept going up and down and up and down.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  That's so funny.
Margaret Bogie::  It was just like, really bizzare. So, you got there at the Des Moines Airport and, you- ran into a couple of other Grinnellians from my class: Charlie Becker, Maura Porper from Houston- who's here for the reunion, which is good. And, we took a little- We took a taxi cab over to the bus station and we rode the bus into Grinnell. And there was a Conoco station. It's not there anymore. It's gone, but it was on the corner of 6th and... what is it, 6th and..? Again, on the road to the high- I can't even think about where it was. Well, anyways, it was in the corner of then town, and we just got dropped off at the bus station.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  There we were, and there were a bunch of students to meet us. I remember Rameen Armajani. He was a couple of years ahead of us, "Armo", was- had a big trolley, and just threw our bags, stuff on it, and we went wheeling down the sidewalk, you know, just to campus. And, kinda threw us in the dorm and then we went to a party and everyone was smoking marijuana and drinking, and it was just like, 'Woo-hoo!', you know? It was pretty memorable. I was just like 18 years old and going 'Wow, this is a wild place.'
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. It was probably like, unlike anything-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I was like, 'Hey, you're not in Kansas anymore.'
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Wow, that's really interesting. Was there- I think I know, where it's like- Was there a professor, student or staff member who had a particularly strong influence on your life?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Well, yeah. Obviously it was the History department, and that was the great, you know, the great love of my life. I spent a lot of my time here trying to write well enough to please Don Smith.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Ha! I know Don Smith!
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Yeah. Don, you know-
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  He comes with food!
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  He's pick-
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Feeds us all the time.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  He's picky. He is so picky, and he’s right but he's picky. And, you know-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  He's still that picky about the History Department.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And he is- His standards were really, really high. I can remember taking British History I, and I knew that history cold, but I think I only got a B in his class. I was just, like, horrified. It was horrible. You know, I didn't write that well. I didn’t, and he really, you know, it was like, you were- He was very patient. He was never a demanding man, but you know you were gonna do this, and so by the time my senior year came around, I did- I actually did an independent project with him, and I was able to get an A because I had finally figured it out.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I was stubborn, and, of course, my great friend is my advisor, Phil Kintner, who is the kindest man. One of the kindest people. What I like ab- why I love Grinnell so much is that I have known him since I was 18 years old and still I- You know, it still feels weird calling him 'Phil'. That- it's strange, but yesterday when I was out here for Alumni College, I ran away a little bit and went to see him and, you know, it's 'cause-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Advisors really appreciated having you there.
Margaret Bogie::  It's a sustaining relationship. I will not come to this town and not see him. And.. He’s 84 now, and he’s doing well. And we talked about hist- we were talking about Machiavelli, and.. We were just busy chatting about stuff. It's fun. I mean, it's like going home in a lot of ways. You know, to an intellectual, emotional home. Those relationships are invaluable. While- Other people go to colleges and maybe they have 'em, but I think here at Grinnell you do, because I have other classmates, who have the same type of relationships with different professors. There’s a real, great humanism and a caring for the students that lasts much longer after you graduate. It's truly an amazing, amazing thing.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  That's really... This is kind of a broad question but: what would you say your best memory is, of your time at Grinnell is?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  So many. Seeing Bruce Springsteen in Darby gym. Oh, wow. And then, that was hard one too, 'cause, you know, the tickets could sell for five bucks, and when I was a student, 5 bucks could last you a whole week. Because, you know... That would buy you beer and you could take care of doing your laundry. So, 5 dollars was pretty serious money. I did think about selling the ticket, but I'm really glad I went. It was a... That- It was just an amazing experience.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  That's so cool. Wow.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  You'll find more people- I mean, there was- in... the- '76, we were seniors. So, it was like, everybody, practically, in my whole class is a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. But it'll also tail off into the... through '79 who saw him.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Okay, wow, that’s really interesting. What kind of- This is kind of a little-er one, but what kind of clothes did you wear every day when you were at Grinnell, or on special occasions?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Ah, special occasions... Okay. We dressed very poorly. I was better dressed in high school. I mean, I wore a dress. I was nice. But here-
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  It's pretty casual, still, but...
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. It pretty much here- Well, like in Grinnell one of the first things you'd do is you'd ditch your purse. You didn't... And there is a very strong peer pressure on how you dress. You just... You didn’t wear makeup.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  That is still a- still a Grinnell thing.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I realize Ithat we're doing an oral thing. I'm sittin' in front of you. I’m not looking too terribly different. I mean, I’ve got a t-shirt on. I’ve got blue jeans on. I don’t have my work boots on. You know, like you would wear those work boots, and just kinda... what I call proletarian clothes. We didn't- You didn’t wear a dress. You just didn’t. But... you know.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  And was that a pretty unique- was that pretty unique to Grinnell?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Yeah it was pretty much... Yeah, we didn’t... We just.. Compared to what my friends were doing, some people got dressed up. We didn’t- nobody got dressed up. I mean, you kind of wore this- you know, you wore work shirts, blue jeans and tops. Now the theater people, they, you know, 'cause they're theater people, they might wear something. And every now and then we had, like, costumes. I remember having a couple of long dresses. I’m not sure exactly why I had them but I did. And I used them. This is gonna be totally embarrassing. You know at Grinnell, going and doing your laundry, first of all, it took your beer money. So, you kinda had to think about that, and you'd kinda put it off, because...
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I’m not sure where the washing machines are now, but I lived on South Campus. And so they were all in Loose basement. I don't know if that's still- I mean, I don’t know if the washing machines have been-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  We have more of them now, so you don't have to walk as far.-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Okay. Well, we didn't. It was like, there was two places you could wash your clothes.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Oh, really? Oh, my gosh.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  North Campus. I want to say it was Dibble? Or, I would-
Margaret Bogie::  But anyway.. So, I live, like, in Cleveland and James. So, I would wait 'til about... 'til I ran out of underwear. So you just didn’t have any. So I had this like, kind of velvety-like dress- I didn't have to wear underwear under it, so... You put that on, and you waited 'til like two in the morning 'cause you didn’t really want anyone to see you in this, and, like, running with my little bags of laundry. My pillow cases stuffed with laundry, and doing laundry in the middle of the night in this dress, and running- [Laughing] It's like you'd think- I was so ridiculous. So ridiculous!
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  But.. you know, you had little costumes. Sometimes we would get dressed up. I think, toward the- I guess they had the- The Waltz had come in on my junior year, when I wasn’t here. So, we got to kind of dress up a little bit for that, but it wasn’t something you did. You- It's basically pretty proletarian. I can remember for my graduation, I refused to wear a cap and gown because it was, to me, I never... Why would I do that?
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah, that's really-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I wore a sundress because we were sitting down in Central Campus. I got a a heck of a sunburn, but I just wore a sundress, because I said, 'This is.. I never dress this way. I'm not gonna wear that.' So..
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah, at my graduation this year, you know, it was very much the formal, standard graduation ceremony. And I was fine with it, but I had a friend who was like, "This does not feel like Grinnell." You know?
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. 'I can't do this.' So, I wore what I wanted to and that was fine. Some people did and some people didn’t, and it was cool, but, yeah, we just didn’t dresss very- We were not fashion policed.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Let's see.. Describe your favorite place on campus.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Probably the Library. I was always in the Library.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Burling? Yeah.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Burling library, which didn’t have the big thing on top. It was all new.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Yeah. My mom hates that.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  It was kind of like- it looked like some spaceship, dropped it- on top of it. Yeah, I would just- I had my little carrel, because I would go up there. You'd see reading and studying and it was very quiet, and I loved it. It just really made me very happy to be there.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Yeah, I spent a lot of-
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  I spent a lot of- My life was in that Library. It was great.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  If you knew what you know now, what would you have done differently during your time in Grinnell, if anything at all?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  I would have been more liberally educated. I mean, what- The interesting thing for me having gone to a British school, and I went- After I left Grinnell, I pursued a graduate degree, which I didn’t finish, but there's so-
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  In medieval history?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  In medieval history. It's like, you know, you quit, weren't gonna- Everybody in my program dropped out over there, except for one person and she is a professor, but the rest of us all got regular jobs and did other things.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  What did you end up doing?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  I ended up actually working in insurance, running- which was- I would have never have... If, when I was here, if you'd told me that I would have just said 'Oh, no way, no way!' But, I've actually kind of drifted more into the area of education, so I direct a nonprofit where we do education, right, for the pharmaceutical industry, teaching people on drug safety and development, and... So, it’s about education. What struck me.. was that.. It really.. As much as I fought Grinnell trying to, you know, get other topics in there, I am interested in art and theater and literature and, you know, I found out I can do statistics pretty well, and science isn't so bad..
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And there's a lot of interesting ideas out there. So, I probab- I mean, I wouldn’t mind coming back. If I had the money to spend on getting a second BA, it would be kind of fun to do this. I mean, not do Medieval History, 'cause I can do that fine, but do something else. So it kind of comes back and bites you after a long period of time.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah, my dad was a Econ/PoliSci major, and, you know, he became a lawyer, and now he's like, "If I went back to college, I'd get a degree in Art History."
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. Do something different. But, you know, at that time I was very determined, and I think that's not unusual. A lot of our- my classmates were pretty willful too. We were just gonna go do this and that was ok.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  So, how would you compare the students of your class with the students of today?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  God, you guys are so smart. You really are. I am so impressed, when I've heard students here, because I’m a Class Agent I get to come back a little bit more often. I was here last year and we had some students talking about what they do. It’s impressive. I’m not saying that we couldn't have done that, but, you know, part of it is the technology- what you have available. 'Cause Don Smith assures me that people still can’t write now any better or worse than we could, y'know, we did. Which is, I guess, relieving, I'm thinking ok, but...
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  You know. I just finished listening to a faculty presentation Alumni College about this climate change class. It was, y'know, Wayne Moyer was teaching with someone from the chemistry department. Elaine Markoff? And it just.. The projects and the papers and the way that they really... the teaching... And I'm thinking, 'This is really interesting,' and the output from the students was very impressive.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. They work us hard. Yeah. They work hard and... Yeah, but you guys are- you know, you're really smart. I mean, I don’t even know if I'm, was smart enough to have gotten into Grinnell as is it now. I don't know, you know? But the students are- I don’t think the student are that different. Yeah, you're younger than we are. It's a different generation- different perspective, but basically bright, motivated kids, who are interested in learning. I just don’t think they're vastly different.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  So, kind of on that angle... Describe student life. What would you and your friends do in your free time?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Okay. We were fairly serious about studying, but y'know we also, like, you know, a lot of- the 70s was a lot of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. We were all running around with various boyfriends. It gets kind of interesting as an alum. All these different people going 'Okay..' You have a few ex-boyfriends and girlfriends and you're going 'Okay... I'm just not gonna pay attention. That was long time ago.' We had parties; we danced; we smoked a lot of pot. I think, the 60s, they did more psychedelic stuff. We didn't.. do that. Took a lot of speed, 'cause you could stay up and do your papers, too. Did that.
Margaret Bogie::  We drank, and had parties, and kind of played hard, and sat there. I mean, sometimes we were smokin' dope and talkin' about politics or whatever. During the time I was here was also when Watergate was happening. And that was interesting because- I can remember when the Pub was down by Gardener Lounge, we would go down and drink beer and watch Walter Cronkite, every night, like religion.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And when Nixon was giving these various speeches, I remember the speech with all the notebooks of the tapes. So we were all in North Lounge at the Forum, and, I mean these professors were there. I remember Don Smith being there. In so- we were actually in the South Lounge, and it was full and we were watching the stuff on TV, and it was like... Well, the reaction, everybody's like shouting at the TV, and 'YAAAAH!' y'know? It was crazy.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah, I think there was more, kind of, professors were more in the student areas than they are now.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah, they were there, but people were- We were all just electrified by it. When Agnew resigned, we had a beer party on Central Campus. We were really happy. I mean, I was disappointed Nixon resigned in August. I mean, I would have wanted to be at Grinnell.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  It was amazing being here at the 2008 election, which was unbelievable.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Yeah, because it's just.. It was a crazy time. The politics and just what Watergate meant was, it was really scary. I mean, the subversion of the Constitution was j- It was a very confusing time, and so kind of, the culmination, I guess, of the Vietnam War, 'cause we had kind of felt like we had missed some stuff 'cause we didn't have to worry about the draft, or Kent State riots... We were just kind of.. Yeah, we were at the end of the way. We had the post. But, yeah, we had Watergate. So we'd be going, drinking beer, watching Walter Cronkite, 'cause you were aware of the news 'cause you did follow it to find out what was going on. Plus, doing your work, y'know, and having your social life, and running around doing various things.
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  So.. That's really interesting. Do you have any other kind of things you want to share, or..?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  About..?
Erica Seltzer-Schultz & Margaret Bogie::  Just anything about your Grinnell experience, or...
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Post-Grinnell was good, too. That- I think it was really cool on campus, but even afterwards, it doesn't end. It just doesn't end, because it's like this network, and I’m sure you will run into this, other alums, who- especially if you're married to a non-Grinnell spouse- they'll say like, "What is it? Do you people send out Z-waves and attract each other?" 'Cause, you know, you can walk down a street, you know, I could- have your little Grinnell thing on, people will stop you.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. I mean, you met your first Grinnellian in London, right?
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Yeah. People stop you. I mean, I've like- remember walking around Toronto, somebody chased me down the street 'cause I had a Grinnell shirt on, wanting to talk to me because their kid went to Grinnell and I went 'Okay!' you know. It's like six degrees of separation.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  I can give ya an example. I was.... A couple of years ago- I own a horse farm out in... kind of in between Warrington and Culpepper, Virginia, and I take horse boarders. So these people who'd moved down from Buffalo brought their, you know, bringing their horse and they came out, just to- to see the farm and make sure it was ok for their horse to be there. Lovely people and really chatty, and I said, "Well, you know, when your horse arrives, I'm not gonna be here. Somebody else will be here, because I have to go to Iowa." And they go, "Oh.. like Iowa... What about Iowa?" I said, "Oh, I’m going to, like, my Grinnell reunion, planning," and they just cracked up. Class of '59. Class of '60. Right? It was so funny.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  Wow. That's so- Wow.
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  And my husband, of course, was standing there, going, "How do you people find each other?" I’m still very good friends with them. I mean, their horse is moved closer to their house, which is fine. But she is fascinating. She is just a really cool person. I keep in touch with both of them, and, you know, that's what I like about it. There are so- There's-
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  A community thing?
Margaret Bogie & Erica Seltzer-Schultz::  It's a community thing, and it goes backwards and forwards. I can tell you the class of '56 is a tremendous class. I've enjoyed meeting them.
Margaret Bogie::  My first reunion here I met people who were at Grinnell-in-China. I mean like, in the 1930's. They did wild things too. We always think, you know, we're the wild ones, as every class does. They paid some classmate, to destroy the depression, I guess. They got like a quarter each or something to run naked around the old women’s gym, and had gotten in filmed. I'm not sure how they did this, but they showed it at their reunion. It was like- yeah. Yeah, it was wild. I mean, I don't know- I did not see it myself, but you know, you can see the sprit never dies. It's just there and it comes out in different ways. So, I think the important thing about Grinnell is, yeah, it's here, but it continues on 'cause it's not about the buildings; it's about the people. It's always about the people.
