Jarren Santos::  Great. So, we'll have you start with just telling your name and where you're from and your class year.
Avram Machtiger::  I'm Avram Machtiger.  Here I was going by my nickname "Ave". I was class of 1974 and I live in Pittsburgh, PA. And I'm gonna go-so.. I guess, we go to the first question: why did you come to Grinnell and what is your first memory of the campus? I grew up in England. I'm American but my family was over there and if you were part of the ex-pat community then, you sent your kids back to the States for college. They'll fix the- er, too much foreign influence. So I didn't want to go back to areas I lived in in the States...
Avram Machtiger::  I was an oil brat kid, but I didn't want to go to an oil brat school like Texas- in Texas or Oklahoma like some of my peers. I wanted to find a small, private, liberal arts college. I really wanted to go all the way to California, but my parents said, "No! It's too far!". I mean, I still came 4,500 miles by myself anyway.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Grinnell had a very good reputation on the ex-pat circuit, and, going back to the States for college, why not? And something- something just impressed me along the way- I think some alums that live in London, and I came by myself. I flew from London to New York, then New York to Des Moines, and my first memories are 60 miles of corn and soy, and thinking, after 4 years at that point, in London, England, "Oh, my God. What have I done?"
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  And here we are.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, and...
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  My first- another first impressions was.... the American students- well, the Grinnell students were really hard for me to connect with because I grew up overseas, and because I did things at an earlier age than they did. I didn't go to high school. I didn't have to come here to have my first alcoholic drink. I was able to completely travel 4,500 miles by myself and set myself up here at 18. I actually fell in with friends just with juniors and seniors, 'cause that's where the maturity level was. I didn't get to be friends with my college peers until towards the end of our sophomore year, and we kind of like, met up, you know?
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Evened out.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  That's interesting.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  So you- yeah, you think having came from abroad you had this sort of increased like, worldliness, or something like that?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah. I mean-
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  A self-sufficiency.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah, 'cause I traveled to a lot of different countries, you know, with family and with school groups and with friends. You live in the city; you have to get city-sophisticated. You have to manage your publ- you know, the public transportation. You have to manage the errands. You have to- Plus, I had lived in a whole other culture for four years, in a whole other country, and... So, yeah, I wasn't sure at first whether I had landed on Mars or beamed down on Mars.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  And actually, I will share this, I treated my first sememster like, "Aren't the natives fascinating?" Second semester, I completely flatlined. I look back and I go- undiagnosed clinical depression, 'cause it's like, "Am I American? Am I British? I'm not British. I don't want to ha- Where do I go? Where do I stay?" And then that summer I just thought, "I have to pick a place." And actually, England was going through a lot of tumultuous, sexual and cultural changes, and it really wasn't the place to be at that point. There were fourteen week garbage strikes, many months long mail strikes. I never got mail from my family when I was here. The coal miners went on strike, and so then we had electricity strikes in the city. The country was falling apart.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Right.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  So I said, "Y'know, in the end I have an American passport. I'll probably live here," and I like, you know, just... made a life at Grinnell.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  It must have been more different too, now that.... now that communicating with people like, wherever, is so easy-
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Mail, really-
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  No, we used to buy kind of like- we used to  write these things, you probably don't even know what they are, aerograms?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  No, no.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah, little blue fold-up things that were alreasdy stamped, and then you'd lick it- you write your letter and lick it, stick it in the mail. It was the most inexpensive way to mail.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Wow.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  I got a phone call from my parents maybe once a semester at a pre-arranged time, because we only had hall phones.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, right.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  And then, the words would just slide by to each other, you know? Because it was Atlantic Cable, so the ocean.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Now you can just Skype your parents every single day.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Exactly, instantly.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  So, where do you- where did you live your first year, I guess?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I lived in Read and then I spent... sophomore year in Langan..... and junior and senior, although I took a semester away, junior and senior in Loose.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Oh, nice.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah, which is my favorite dorm.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Loose? Yes, I lived in Loose one year, too, yeah- And, I don't know, what did your dorm look like? Are there any.... evocative memories, or-?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Oh, yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Of your dorm life, I suppose...
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Well, I had a really cool room my senior year. It's the double window facing 8th Avenue, and because I didn't have a home in the States, this was my home. So, I had.... to like, find places for stuff for summers, for example, you know, friends' basements, garages, so I had a lot of books. I had, you know, a... concrete block and wood bookcase. I had a big Indian printed bedspread on the wall. I had all kinds of English posters....
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  My big trunk from England was my coffee table. I had millions of records 'cause I was a KDIC DJ..... I had to make it a very home-y room, 'cause that's where I lived.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah. What kind of show did you have on the radio?
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  I had.... a very eclectic mix show on Saturday mornings. I played a lot of.... British stuff. I played a lot of Monty Python, which was just available on vinyl then, and hadn't been introduced to the States, really, and because I was working with kids, I carved out half an hour of the show every Saturday with some kind of children's literature, like reading Winnie the Pooh, or Half Magic, or.... I don't remember. Y'know, kids' stories, kids' books.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And what was your major?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Psychology and Elementary Education.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Oh, and did you end up doing- like, going into that field?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I go- I spent my career in Psych and public health, public mental health.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Oh.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And I have- I have another question: what kind of clothes did you wear every day as a Grinnell student or on special occasions?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Jeans.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I mean.... but, then they were.... The style was bell-bottoms. They were flared-out, and the style was also to put- when you got holes or tears, put patches and embroider them, so everyone was very well-illustrated.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And just t-shirts, or just long-sleeve shirts.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Mhm.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  That's it. Still how I dress, except neater jeans.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah, yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And-
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Special occasions? They- we didn't have dress-up things here, you know? It just wasn't the time.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I think there was one thing: the Loose Hall Ball. We like, had a sports jacket on, but that was it. This campus was very informal.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And, I guess, describe your favorite place on campus if there is one.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I will always have a soft spot for the Forum.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Mm.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  I will always have a soft spot for the- what we call, the Forum Beach. Y'know, the area outside, and..... That, and I always loved Goodnow. I was a Psych major, and that's where the Psych department was housed, and... I just think that is just the coolest building.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Okay. Never ended up having a class in there, but I always hear it's kinda cool.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Then, is there anything else you'd like to- any stories, any intersting moments that have been brought back up?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Well, I think it's- for me, what I love, is that, you know, I've remained an active alum. I've been to all my reuinions, I'm on the class committee to organize this one, our 40th. I was on Alumni Council, which is kind of like, you know, the alumni board, for six years, and so I got to, like- I've gotten to come back and forth and get- I feel like I have a- I don't just come to campus and go, "Oh, my God, I'm back at Grinnell!" It's like, I have a very present relationship with this place, or with the staff, which I just really appreciate. And that- you know, here I am at my 40th reunion. It was- let alone classmates, they're friends that I've had since I was 18, 19, 20, you know? And we're all here. It's just... very cool.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Are you surprised about- do you think, like, the campus or anything else, the culture, has changed anything? Like, big ways, or do you think it feels somewhat the same?
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Well, I think it's- you know, back in... my years, the College was.. not very di- the student population was not very diverse, and I look around now, I really like how diverse it is. So, I think that was a change, and that was good... My sense, from coming here and talking to students, is, you know, you guys are smart, you guys study hard. You know, that hasn't changed. I think there's more in- we were really left alone. It was like, "Don't hurt yourself. Don't hurt others."
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  And, I sense there's kind of a more keeping an eye out even though it's self-governance.
Jarren Santos & Avram Machtiger::  Yeah.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  ...And I don't know. I don't know how to- like, s- I'd have to come here and like, actually sit in classes and like, hang out and stuff to like, really get a sense of how the culture has changed, but...
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  My sense is, it's Grinnell.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Right.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  'Cause I look across, and- you know, 'cause I know other people from other classes where they're 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s... it's Grinnellians.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.... Cool, so unless there's anything else you wanna discuss...
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  No, thank you.
Avram Machtiger & Jarren Santos::  Alright, thanks.
