Elizabeth Leonard::  Are you supposed to sit here, or no?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  No, please.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yes? Okay. We're recording?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yep!
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Well, that was easy. My name is Elizabeth Leonard and I currently live in Montclair, New Jersey. I’m a member of Grinnell College class of 1993.
Elizabeth Leonard::  Oh, why did I come to Grinnell College? I knew my guidance counselor very well, and they had a computer. I guess, for us it was new. It was this big DOS thing where you put in all these parameters of what you want, y’know, size of school. I didn’t want fraternities or sororities. I wanted a small school. I wanted, I think, Russian language and International Studies, which is what I thought I was going to study until I got to Grinnell, and it spit out this huge list of schools, and my guidance counselor said that I would like Grinnell.
Elizabeth Leonard::  So, I came to visit and my first memory of the campus was that nobody locked their doors and there was a guy walking around wearing a skirt, and I guess those things kind of symbolized to me, like, a sense of freedom, without the locking the doors, trust and freedom and an openness. And this guy was.. like, a freedom of being whoever you want to be.
Elizabeth Leonard::  Was there a professor or student or staff member… I- I was extremely fond, like most people of my era, was extremely fond of Jon Andelson, who was a wonderful supportive presence. Extremely bright, and everybody just admired him, and you worked hard in his class, but you enjoyed it. He was- is- has a real gift for teaching.
Elizabeth Leonard::  The best memories of my time... I think, sitting outside, playing Frisbee. Y’know, I used to study on the first floor of the Library. If I went to the fourth floor where it was quiet, I couldn’t concentrate because I was curious as to what was going on everywhere else, so I worked at the carrels on the first floor, or the big cloverleaf tables in the stacks and that way I could completely ignore everything.
Elizabeth Leonard::  But I was feeling like a part of what I was doing. I was a big environmentalist and so I did a lot of environmental groups, FIG and I don’t even remember what they were called. One of my favorite memories was a group that we did called the Scroungers where myself and several others who I won’t name ‘cause I don’t know if they were comfortable with that, but we stood next to the garbage cans in the Main Hall dining hall and we would take food off the people’s plates before they threw it away because we were making some grand statement about how much waste food was, which was really funny. So, we did that for about two weeks and then the College came to us and asked us very politely if we would stop because it was a health code violation. Or at least, that’s what they said, so we stopped that, but, y'know, we kind of made a point.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  When you mentioned the Frisbee, was there a Frisbee team at that time?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yes.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yep?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yeah, it had, I think, may have just started. I did not play on it but several of my classmates played on it. The Elephants, I think.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Grinnellephants?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yeah, and the girls was the first traveling girls team. They went different places and played. They had a great time.
Elizabeth Leonard::  So my dorm room. I only lived on campus the first year, and then the second year. I lived in Cleveland the first year, and the second year I lived in Russian House, and then the third and the fourth years I got an apartment off campus. Y'know, it was a typical dorm room, so it was only- we were rearranging it constantly to try and make the most of the very small space and, yeah, so I don’t think it looked like anything in particular because it just kept changing.
Elizabeth Leonard::  I think it was pretty typical, for the most part. We had a, y’know, our bedspread covers were those big Indian things with the prints on them and whatever. It’s funny: I don’t remembe- I don’t think of my dorm room as being what I think of as Grinnell. I think of outside and the buildings and everything, and the dorm room was the least important place. It was like the place I slept.
Elizabeth Leonard::  What kind of clothes did I wear? Well, at that point I was going through hippie phase, so I was wearing a lot of long, flowy skirts, which I still do because they’re comfortable, but, y'know, I wore the stupid little bells on my ankle and... Y’know, tie dyes and jeans. I wore a lot of jeans and ripped jeans and t-shirts and Birkenstocks. I wore Birkenstocks constantly. Special occasions, I dressed up like a normal person outside of Grinnell. You know, the way I was taught to dress up when you grew up. You know, pretty dress and heels, or whatever, and that always seemed so anti-Grinnell to do it, but, y'know, it was a special occasion.
Elizabeth Leonard::  What book influenced me the most? I don’t know... I have a bunch of books from my Anthropology classes that I’ve kept.. and it’s probably those ethnographies that... because I still own them, I guess they still have significance to me. I don’t remember a specific tome. "The Serpent and the Rainbow", I guess. I'm dragging that out of – "The Road to Wigan Pier", "Sorrow of the Lonely" and "The Burning of the Dancers", those were all Anthropology books.
Elizabeth Leonard::  I took a really interesting class on Christian feminism, which was very- It was just fascinating and I don’t remember what the- I remember the book was very interesting. I didn’t know much about Christianity because I wasn’t Christian, but I figured, "Why not take the class?" It was interesting. Y’know, really, really re-looking at the religion from a feminist point of view. I really enjoyed that actually, although the book was a bit dense.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  The town? The town was always nice, I guess, but back when I was here there was no Chinese restaurants in town. There were no bagels in town. I tried to buy matza one year. I’m Jewish and I tried to buy matza in the town and I went to the different grocery stores trying to get them and one place, you know, I said, “Well, I want matza,” and she said “What’s that?” and I said, "Well it’s-" and I described the matza and she looks at me and she says, “Crackers? You want crackers?”
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Whoa.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  So that was no good, and then I went to another place and so, I figured I’d jump the description thing and I said “It’s a Jewish –“ and I got that far and she said, “We don’t have it,” as soon as I got the word “Jewish” out. So, I had to go to Iowa City. You know, it was an adventure. I come from the East coast, so I was used to everywhere being, y'know, Jewish friendly. And it wasn’t unfriendly, but...
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  And then there was one time where my boyfriend and I were kissing goodbye on the corner and it was winter, so we were all wrapped up, and I was very slight in college so I looked like a boy kissing another boy and some guy was honking and screaming at us. It was just weird. Until he saw my face, which was very feminine and then he stopped. So, he thought we were two guys... Y'know..
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Was that, like, a taboo topic at that time?
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Well, it was 1990 or something. I don’t think the community and the town were as comfortable with the idea of two men being together, y'know, being gay or couples or something. As- the College, nobody cared, but this is, y'know, a guy from the town. Yeah, at the College nobody cared about any of that stuff.
Elizabeth Leonard::  And in fact, there were a lot of people who were- we would describe them now I guess as BUGs. They were bi until graduation. So, they were like bi and then they graduated and they went off with their same- y'know, with their opposite-sex partners. So there was a lot of exploration.
Elizabeth Leonard::  How has Grinnell changed since you were a student? Well, there’s an awful lot more buildings here and more modernization, but essentially, I think in spirit, it’s still very much the same. Y'know, Darby’s gone. That was sad. Okay, describe something that’s no longer available on campus, that would be Darby. Or that was meaningful to you. Darby. I really- I loved that building. It was wonderful.
Elizabeth Leonard::  My favorite academic experience or class. I had an Anthropology class with Professor, I think, Professor Kurtz, and there were like three of us in the class. Y'know, we would get together in his office, y'know, and just talk; talk about the things we were reading and whatever. That was really neat because we kind of designed the class around what we wanted and the professor said “OK, great,” you know? And that’s the sort of thing that made Grinnell what it is, you know? It’s like a- an Eden for idealists, y'know. If you can envision it, you can build it. Yeah.
Elizabeth Leonard::  My favorite place on campus. I think I had one, out in front of the Forum maybe. That first floor table in the Library.... What would I have done differently during my time at Grinnell? I guess I would’ve taken, y’know- if I knew then what I knew now, what would I have done differently? I probably would’ve taken more risks and I wouldn’t have been quite as... I didn’t drink in college. I didn’t really party that much or anything. I didn’t let go and let loose, and now, I think I would have. I know- I’m not sure it really mattered in the long run, but....
Elizabeth Leonard::  If you married your spouse/partner- met your spouse/partner- I dated somebody all during my college years but we broke up after college. We were both in improv together, y'know. We went out for a date. We went to the Back Alley Deli for a sandwich and then we went and played on the playground or something ‘cause, y'know, we were both 19 or whatever. And it was great. it was a wonderful relationship. Yeah.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Haven’t- I haven’t met too many of the students today, but I assume that they’re still as much as they ever were. The couple students that I’ve spoken to seem to be very similar. The kids look about the same. Y’know, a bunch of idealists and a bunch of individuals.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Ha.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  What’s wrong with that?
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Nothing at all.
Elizabeth Leonard::  Describe student and campus life as you experienced it? I think I’ve done enough of that. If I were writing a history of Grinnell College what would you include from your- my years here? You know, my first year or two here we implemented the recycling program on campus, you know. That was student driven, and I think that was really really important.... What else? I don’t know. We had... Titular Head videos were a big part of when we were here.
Elizabeth Leonard::  Tripod Bob. He’s a real cat. I petted him, and I fed him. Y'know, Bob’s Underground is named for him. I wish somebody had a picture of him. He was a great, great cat. He was really sweet and he was all beat up constantly. His ears were torn, ‘cause I guess he fought a lot with other cats but he was great with people, y'know, and he’d limp along, ‘cause he really- he only had three legs. He’d lost, I think, the front right or front left one. Front right. I’m pretty sure it was the front right. He was just a nice cat, although he looked constantly like, just- he'd been through the ringer.
Elizabeth Leonard::  There was a tree in the back of the Library that had a- a door handle stuck into it and I’m sure it’s grown over by now. So, it was like the wishing tree. So, you would go out and you’d touch the door handle and then knock on it like three times to get your wish. You know, you can’t believe that you'd believe that stuff right now, but it was one of those rituals, you know. It was one of those little things that you did. Yeah.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  The kids jumping on the trains, which I guess they’re still doing ‘cause I heard some kid got his- smashed his leg. Stupid kid.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Not since then.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Oh, yeah, good. People finally learned?
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  No messing with the train.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Yeah.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  It’s penalized severely.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Oh, well, that’s good ‘cause the- y’know that kid could be...
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  The waltzes were wonderful.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  You had the Waltz?
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Yeah, yeah, we did. That was the one time that we dressed up. Y'know. My friend Nora wore overalls. I wore a dress.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Pretty much like today.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Yeah, pretty much. You know, it runs the gamut.
Elizabeth Leonard::  And they would bring in the Iowa Symphony Orchestra to play for us, and we had Bob Mould come, who was from Sugar Hüsker Dü. He played in the Forum. I don’t know what they were thinking. They put him in the Forum. I guess they didn’t think it would be a big audience. Well, the glass was shaking and you could hear it all the way over on the other side of the Arts Building, ‘cause he, y’know, Bob Mould is known for playing very loudly.
Elizabeth Leonard::  And then there was the Indigo Girls, that was really cool, came to play just for us. They didn’t tell the community ‘cause they didn’t, y'know, want an outpour. It was very hard to get tickets. It was one of the few times they did tickets.
Elizabeth Leonard::  They had built the- they built Harris then, so it had just opened up and, y’know, during my years, my last year or two, and that was really neat. It was weird. It was all this- Well, y’know we didn’t think of ourselves as being that modern. We thought ourselves as being hip and retro and we had this uber, ultra-modern building with all this neon and everything and we were like…
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  What was going on in Harris, those days?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Well, the Indigo Girls played there and we had the Waltz in there. We used to have it in Darby and the we had the Waltz in there afterwards and we were very upset ‘cause we all liked Darby. We loved Darby, y'know. I was very fond of- great place. Y’know, I was very much a South Campus person, so I didn’t make it up to Harris as much, y'know, and by that time I was living off-campus as well and I was, “Oh, an extra three blocks to walk.”
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Were there parties in Harris?
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  I’m sure. I think a lot of our parties were in Gardner, which, y’know, in the basement of Main, and then Bob’s, which opened up during my time there, too. I think in the last year or so. I really need to stop in there. I haven’t been to South Campus. I was a South Campus person. I’m spending all my time on North Campus ‘cause that’s where everything is. At least, for my cluster, is where everything is. I think they put the older people on South Campus and they gave us the North Campus.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Yeah.
Tamara Grbusic & Elizabeth Leonard::  Y'know, people with the kids and the parties and everything.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Grinnell was magical. It's, without question, one of the best decisions I ever made for my life, and I hope that Jake will, my son, seven year old son, I very much hope that he will come here for that reason. I just really- y’know you think, “Oh, I could’ve gone anywhere and been happy.” I don’t know that to be true. Grinnell is different than so many other places. [Phone beeps.]
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  And there goes my texting... And.. I dunno. I’m glad I chose it. Thank you.
Elizabeth Leonard & Tamara Grbusic::  Oh, thank you very much.
