William Wilcoxen::  You gettin' anything yet?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Keep on talking.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Okay. "Oral History Questions: Why did you come to Grinnell College? What is your first memory?" Okay, we workin' now?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Oh... let's go ahead and start up right here. So, go ahead and speak directly into the microphone.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Say your name..
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Right.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  -your- where you currently reside, and your class year.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Right. My name is William Wilcoxen. Do I need to spell that?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Uh, no. You should be fine.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Okay, and I live in St. Paul, Minnesota, and I graduated from Grinnell in 1984.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Okay.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So let's go ahead and start.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So, first of all, why did you come to Grinnell College and how was it like, being there for the first time?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  I remember that there was a sub- I mean, high school, right? And, there was a substitute in our English class, and my buddy and I, we knew that nothing ever really got accomplished when there was a sub because the class was gonna be outta control. So, we were looking for an alternative, and we said, "Hey, let's go to the counseling office," and there was somebody from Grinnell there. And she described Grinnell, it sounded really good, and I said, "Okay, I guess I'll go there." And I applied to Grinnell, only place I applied, really the only place I even... you know, thought very seriously about. And- and I've been struck since then by the randomness of it. It was- I just lucked into it, but it really turned out to be a great place for me to go.
William Wilcoxen::  So, that was in Chicago. I grew up in the south side of Chicago, and.. I think there was something strangely exotic about going to school in a rural area to me. You know, the country was- My grandparents lived in... in- on farms, and so I had a little bit of experience with it, but I was purely a city kid myself. And so, to go to school out in the middle of Iowa was... It just appealed to me on some level.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  One of the things I remember is that... I- I liked that I could walk around barefoot, you know? People were accepting of that, especially I think in the, maybe even more so, in the early 80s than today, and I would go, like, an entire day- I would even, we weren't supposed to, but I would even like, go to class barefoot, and go into the dining halls barefoot, which we weren't suposed to do, but nobody ever made me turn around, so.. I would go sometimes 2, 3 days and I felt a little bit like Tom Sawyer, I think.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah. We still do that now.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah. Yeah, do ya?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  I liked that. Yeah, so there's that. What else?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So how do you feel that transition was like, from.. going from a city kid to the rural life.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, I liked it, and I think it was good. I....
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Anything noticeably different? Obviously.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Well, people - people knew each other. I mean, that's one of the things I liked about Grinnell, too, was the... It is a small enough school that you- I felt like I knew most of the people on campus, and I- another trick I remember doing sometimes was I would just say, "I'm gonna-" You know, people would say "Hello" to each other. Even if you didn't know someone well, you at least knew them by sight usually, and so... you know, walkin' down the loggia, I'd say "Hello" to everybody I saw, you know, and I would do that just sort of as an exercise. But that was something that I really appreciated about a small town and a small campus that was different from, you know, a big city and a big high school, yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So, imagine yourself walking on the first day-
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  And you get to a- your dorm room, and I don't know what your dorm was, but go ahead and say that in your story.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  What was your room like? Who was your roommate? And what was that, kind of a- experience like your first year having that roommate?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  It was good. I- like probably most freshman are, I was nervous about how it was gonna go and about college life generally. And... I was in a triple! I lived in Dibble Hall, and this was just before it was renovated. They were in the process of renovating the dorms in the early 80s, and some of them had been reanovated. Dibble had not. So, it was, you know, pretty old and beat up, and they weren't doin' that much maintenance on it anymore, 'cause it was gonna get an overhaul. And I was in a triple.
William Wilcoxen::  But, at the beginning of the school year, this often happens, they were sort of over-booked. They had too many students, and so there actually were four of us in this triple when I got there. And there were two, kind of, inner rooms, and, you know, other guys had those already, so I was out in sort of the main, you know, living room area of this triple, with another guy in a bunk bed. So, it was pretty close quarters. And I remember the guys, yeah. It was.. Andy Reeves, was one of them, Harley Leicher was another, and Bob Joel. Bob Joel was the one who- he was not a freshman; he was a transfer student, and, as soon as another room opened up, he moved out and got his own room.
William Wilcoxen::  But, it was- I think it was good for me to have, you know, a few roommates, rather than just one, because it just got me to know more people, and... And there were a couple of..... 2 or 3 people I knew from my high school who wound up going to Grinnell, also, and when you're brand new and you don't know anybody, you know, you kinda gravitate toward who you do know, and so I did hang out with those guys quite a bit, and it turned out to be.... We became very good friends, much more so than we were in high school. So, it was nice. I liked that.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Do you still talk to your first-year roommates? Have you... like, how is that- maintaining that relationship?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  I really didn't stay in touch with them very much. You know, we kinda drifted in different directions after that first year. In fact- the nice thing was, so I described how there were four of us in that room originally, and then, you know, Bob moved out 'cause he got a single, and then in the second semester Andy decided to move to Spanish House. And so then there were only two of us, and it was great, because, you know, we had- not only did we have our own little rooms, we had a big living room together. So it was actually a very nice living arrangement there my freshman year. And....
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  What else was I....? I had a thought there for a minute and then I lost it, so... I don't know.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  That's okay. No worries.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Okay, so let's go, again, down memory lane of course. So, imagine coming back- or, leaving at night from your dorm to go to a party. What were some of your best memories? Your party memories, your school memories, whatever memories- what were your best memories here at Grinnell?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Oh, from my whole Grinnell experience?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, whole Grinnell...
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  You know? If you wanna do from like, first year to second year to third year to fourth year, you could do that too.
William Wilcoxen::  Well, I would say that the socializing was my favorite part of college. I mean, I liked the school work. That was good, but I think I really kind of blossomed just in terms of getting to know people. I- I was more reticent in high school, and I think that... I don't know if it was just sort of being in a smaller community, or... being around so many like-minded people. I mean, you know, I was aware of it even at the time, and I've thought about it since, that, you know, it's really special to have... a group of people who are, you know, all together and- What am I trying to say? ...You know, people who are about the same age, and are- have a lot of the same values and interests, and they're all congregated in one place for a limited amount of time without anything else to do other than just study and get to know one another. 
William Wilcoxen::  And that's pretty amazing to me, you know, when I look back on it now, because, you know, in the adult world, we're all moving in such different directions, and we're all so busy with so many different things, that I've often thought about what a special time of life that was. But.... in terms of, you know, favorite memories, yeah, socializing generally, but the Pub was a- was a real focal point for a lot of us, I think, and I liked, you know, just being able to go down there and run into whoever else was there, and, you know, know that I would have friends there, you know? That was.. that was great. So, I liked- liked goin' to the Pub.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, I- I-
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Was the Pub still in JRC? Or was it in what we call Bob's Underground Cafe?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, it was- it was in the location where Bob's Underground Cafe is now.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Okay.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Alright.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, and.... and that was great. Yeah, the foosball table and the jukebox, and.... Yeah. It was great, and sometimes there'd be bands down there.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Um...
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Was- Oh. Do you have- continue?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, well, I was just gonna.... Another thing I was gonna mention was that the- my- So my senior year, I spent the first half, the first semester studying abroad in Yugoslavia. I came back for my last semester of college, and wasn't sure where I was gonna live- well, actually, while I was overseas, wrote letters back and forth and arranged to live in the home of a professor who was on sabatical somewhere else, so there were a few of us livin' there, and so.... I was actually living in the town of Grinnell, not on campus.
William Wilcoxen::  And.... I was an American Studies major, and my senior seminar was on.. a phenomenon called "Communitas", which is- It's... the way- it's the sense of community that builds among people who are sort of randomly thrown together. If you get stuck in an elevator with people, and, you know, you pass the time with them, and figure a way to break out, that would be an example of this phenomenon that we were studying, and everybody would do their senior paper on, you know, you'd find something along those lines, and I chose to do mine on the Maid-Rite in town, and...
William Wilcoxen::  So, it was- it was good for me because I- I was, you know, just getting interested, and, you know, I'm about to leave college and this is my last semester, so I'm more interested in how people live.. you know, after college, and so it was good for me, I think, to be a townie for a while there instead of just, you know, livin' on campus again. And I would go to the Maid-Rite almost every morning, and, you know, I was observing- I needed to eat breakfast anyway, but I was observing, you know, kind of the- how the regulars interacted with one another, and with the staff, and that was what I did my paper on, but it was....
William Wilcoxen::  I- I really enjoyed that- that sense of community around that place, too. That was a.. that was a key place for me, and I- I was living it in the day, and then I would, you know, analyze it and write about it. I remember I interviewed a couple of... professors. I interviewed Joe Wall, who used to go to the Maid-Rite, and also, I wanted to contrast it with a different coffee shop, you know? And so he- he helped me make that contrast because I didn't go to the second one very much, but he did, so..
William Wilcoxen::  I really enjoyed... I enjoyed that. It- it- I just felt like it helped prepare me for what I was really gonna do. And that's another irony of this, is.... I majored in American Studies, and, when you do that, you don't have any idea- you're not preparing yourself for a particular career, but as with a liberal arts education generally, I think you're preparing yourself for whatever comes next, and for- in my case, it turned out I went into journalism, and... I- I actually thought that it was- I found that it was a great preparation, because it got me in the habit of observing people, and you know, asking them questions, and telling stories, which was really all that journalists do. So... yeah, it was- it actually turned out to be very good preparation for my professional life, which I did not expect at all.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  What's your occupation now? Journalist?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, I'm still in journalism.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  That's awesome.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Was there a specific- aside from that professor, was there like, a someone, a something, or a... someplace that might have influenced you even more, too? To like an extent where like, you're using their life lessons today, or like, they've just had such an impact on you while, you know, outside of Grinnell and where you are now?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  To be honest, nothing really comes to mind on that, I think.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Okay.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  That's totally fine, though.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  What was- oh. So.... what was I gonna say?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah...
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Did you.... meet anyone here- oh, uh, that you...
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  That's what I thought.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, yeah. It's great because, probably my closest friend now is the guy who lived across from me my freshman year in Dibble.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  And, you know, and that was.. 30 years ago, so, you know, it's.... it's pretty cool. But yeah, it's a friendship I made at Grinnell.
William Wilcoxen::  He was a... so I was a freshman living with three other guys in that room, and this guy was a... had a single across the hall, and... We- I think- He's told me that he first noticed me- there was a television in the lounge, and... the baseball play-offs were on, and.. he was a Yankee fan, and the Yankees were in the play-offs, and I came down to watch the play-offs too, and I was- He noticed that I was keeping score... of a baseball game that I was watching on television, and he thought that was really cool. So, we first bonded, I think, over baseball, and then we became, you know, good friends.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  And he had a radio show on KDIC... and I used to listen to it an then call him up and then I would call him up and request songs, and I got more interested in radio, and so the next semester I did my own show- They had just gone to a 24-hour format, and they were havin' trouble finding people to do the overnight...
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Shift?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Shows, yeah. And luckily, I had- my class schedule was such that almost all my classes were Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I had no classes on Thursday. So, Wednesday night I got the 3 AM to 7 AM radio show and I would, you know, stay up all night and, you know, have four hours to be cueing up records. You know, there's an obsolete skill, and.... Yeah, so I- I did kind of get into radio, you know, through this friend of mine who lived across the hall.
William Wilcoxen::  And then.... when I got out of Grinnell, when I grad- He was a.. year and a half ahead of me in school. I wasn't sure what I was gonna do when I finished Grinnell, but... he was working at Minnesota Public Radio, and at- First I went back home to Chicago for... maybe nine months, and was working in a library, but thinkin' about what to do next, and he wrote to me and said, "You know, you could at least get an internship if you came up here to Minnesota."
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  So I did that, and I- and I moved into a house where he was livin' with a couple other guys... and, you know, after interning for a while at MPR, that led to a job in a- at one of their stations near St. Cloud, Minnesota. Worked there for six years, went back down to the twin cities for 20-some years, and I'm still in that field- I'm no longer with MPR, but it's interesting to me that I can look back at, you know, both my profession and where I chose to live, and they were influenced by this classmate of mine who lived across the hall. Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, and that's just the impact of one person.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah!
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, so..
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, you get to see what happens, you know?
William Wilcoxen::  And it's funny because I st- we both still live in the twin cities, and, you know, I see him quite a bit, you know. He's still- as I say, he's probably my closest friend, so... Yeah, it's great that the people you meet at Grinnell are the people you- who do influence you and who stay in your life in many cases. I think back to high school, and I'm not really in touch with any of my high school friends, but college is.... is.... a very different thing for me.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  What about dating? What about the meeting of masses?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, I actually didn't do very much dating at Grinnell, but I think it was good for me to... because I was.... really..... quiet in high school, it was g- I.. it was good for me to develop a lot of friendships with a lot of women... and so I think that was important to me, but I didn't have a steady girl, you know. I mean, I had a few, you know, get-togethers, but- but nothin'... nothin' all that significant in terms of romance at Grinnell. Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Okay.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So, let's go ahead and shift a little bit.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  You know about the on-going topics today that are just so talked about. You know, anywhere from technology to foreign policy and all that stuff, what do you think was different back in the day when they would- like, what were those big topics that you guys would talk about at Grinnell?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Hm.... You know, nothing comes to mind, actually. I- you know... You know, I- yeah, I- I don't really- I mean... I- I thought-
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  What about events in general?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Like, what would you get excited for, you know? Whether it was a.. dance party, or if it was a... you know. You know, 10/10 or something like that.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah, there were the- There were the big- the big parties that they would have in Darby. I mean, I remember those. Well- or Grinnell Relays; that- that was probably my favorite one, was when they would have the Relays, which- You've heard about that?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  They still do it today, so it's-
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Do they really?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Wow.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  No, I- I remember, you know, when I've come back for other reunion- or, soon after I left they were trying to get rid of Relays because it was, y- There were some ways in which it was- people would get a little too outta control, but...
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Hm.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  But, I remember it bein' a really fun... party. It was just a great day, and... And- and the way Professor Moyer, you know, arranged it, was- it was great, you know? And, so, I became a- I didn't know what it was at first. I remember people selling t-shirts to raise money to buy the beer for Relays, and I was like, "What is Relays?" I didn't understand what it was and I didn't want to buy a t-shirt.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  But then when the day actually arrived, and... You know, and this buddy of mine who lived across the hall, you know, took me out and said, "You gotta check this out." And- yeah, and we even were in the Titular Head Contest, and we were like, co-winners. I think there was a tie, so we rode on the fire engine in the parade.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  And then... you know. And there was all these crazy drinking games, you know, and it was.. just a lot of fun, you know, so... That was- in terms of, you know, events to look forward to, that was probably at the top of my list.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Okay.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So, let's wrap up this interview with one last question.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Yeah.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  So, if you were to give advice to future students, to future people, and then, something that you might've gained from Grinnell up to where you are now, what would that be?
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  It would be to enjoy the people that you're going to school with.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Mhm.
Jarren Santos & William Wilcoxen::  Because, I-
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  I knew some people who were very... conscientious about their classwork and would kind of barricade themselves in the library, and.... They got good grades, but I think they missed an important part of their education, so- And, what I relish the most about my Grinnell years, is how I think it helped me develop socially, and it helped me appreciate different kinds of people. And so, I think the.... the getting-to-know-your-classmates part of it was the most valuable to me. That's not to say the academics weren't important, but the.... the best part of it for me was getting to know the people around me..
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Okay.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  So, thank you for your contribution.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, yeah.
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Did you have fun with that?
William Wilcoxen & Jarren Santos::  Yeah, yeah... That was good. So, yeah.
